Book Club Log #11
Arrived to the book club kind of sweaty because I fast-walked to the library to return my sister's book before. So that kinda set me off the proper mindset of engaging, I guess. Though honestly, I wasn't planning on talking at all anyway given the fact that I didn't like Demon Copperhead and my feelings about The Hunger Games are extremely lukewarm.
Through the conversation I mostly had to fight with my urge to talk about things like narrative style and character representation because that evidently is too in the weeds. I'm noticing a pattern where the stuff people take away from fiction and whatnot is not all the methods of the craft and how effective certain things are or not and/or how much something plays into stereotypes that taken en masse pigeonholes groups of people in dehumanizing ways, but just like themes they resonate with or that seem true to them, basically. As expected, the person who suggested these books (Dragonfly earrings, or today it was Swallowtail to fit the theme) was batting really hard for them and mentioned how authentic Kingsolver was. Said Kingsolver grew up in Appalachia and lives there now and interviewed people for this book. Not mentioned is the fact that Kingsolver fucked off to the Democratic Republic of the Congo during all the years her book's protagonist lived through, so it is not actually her personal life experience, but oh well. The details. Also said that Suzanne Collins doesn't pull punches and doesn't care about who her readers are. I think this is a nonsensical statement to make when her books contain a lot of bait for the mainstream, such as how Peeta is a non-character satellite love interest. Also, while someone might infer that Katniss is Melungeon, evidently not stating that outright in the books just made it even easier for Hollywood to cast her as a white actress. Like... But I wasn't gonna get into these types of arguments because it didn't seem like much of a point and I don't really want to make an enemy out of people or accidentally derail the whole conversation again. Swallowtail Earrings also mentioned that she can come off really intense, which is super true. Honestly, disagreeing with her seems like it'd be a heated affair, though perhaps she's not intending it to be so. So anyway.
Besides fighting with my details urge, there were a few interesting things people brought up. A new person who I will now call Mobile Community sat next to me and sort of rambled about how they're playing Clash of Clans and have created a community of like 26 people over 10 years that seem to be just talking about like anything, including politics. So now they're talking to people from Texas, Tennessee, etc. and have ended up creating a space where a former Trump voter changed his mind because other people were engaging with him seriously and maturely, and he started seeing that the things the people from the blue states were saying matched some of the stuff he was observing in his own life. And now he reads a variety of news to see the various narratives and when the group discusses current events, they're all more aware now of the narrow narratives they're given in each of their regions and so they work to build a broader picture together. In fact, the ex-Trump voter voted for Trump because every day he drives past a lynching tree and the knowledge of the horrible things his people had done had convinced him that if they didn't retain their power they would face retributive violence. Because the horrific things they had done were impossible to repair or come back from, so it was a "us vs. them" calculation. People in the club did point out that saying he wasn't racist but then still voting for Trump was a weird-ass (paraphrasing) dissonance. This led Purple Corn to say that perhaps they don't have the language of systemic racism, though, so they don't actively realize it.
This basically led to what I think the thesis of the discussion today was, which was basically not to look down on people from red states and to write them off, which seems to be a major thing Swallowtail Earrings wanted us to take away from these books, as someone who had lived in the south (in a liberal-leaning area of Louisiana) but who had honestly encountered more racism in California (with more people saying the N-word among other things). That people in the south are already doing all the stuff we talk about here, coalition-building, etc. And she was saying people in red states know that people in blue states hate them and are never gonna vote for people that think they're stupid. That a lot of blue state people talk all this blah blah about we're not reaching them because we're too intellectual, etc., when the fundamental disconnect is the lack of respect.
I thought that was interesting. Just more evidence that people need psychological safety before they're going to engage with examining their beliefs. But anyway, funny that this comes out of two books I would've been plenty happy without reading. In fact, I am never going to finish Demon Copperhead no matter how much Swallowtail Earrings thinks we all should. Though interestingly, another teacher guy (?) (cannot remember if I have ever mentioned him but I think he came by once before) mentioned that he thinks David Copperfield is written way better in terms of craft measures. He was the only one who had read David Copperfield.
Another interesting fact is that people were saying that people in blue states don't realize how widespread drug addiction issues are in red states. Like in red states you know someone or there's someone in your family that is affected by drugs, and it cuts across all class lines. Swallowtail Earrings attested to the fact that she knew a lot of people addicted to heroin in the South but hasn't met anyone who uses heroin in the North. Chill Lady said she has family on her mom's side in Appalachia and similarly it's a very present thing there.
Anyway, I figured I wasn't doing so hot performance-wise in this book club of contributing anything useful or being an interesting talking partner to Mobile Community. I felt like the responses I was giving them was maybe ... too distant or flippant or the vibe was off. eh. I just tried to repeat in my head something from that Systemic Shame book about how i don't have to feel shit or do shit to just sit with the sense that I was getting a Bad Grade at social interaction and I didn't have the relevant background or life skills to be useful. Like all this talk about coalition-building and whatever and I know I ain't doing that because of my Mental Problems. Perpetually not someone who is actually doing the work, but I'm not going to change that anytime soon. I was just thinking about how I probably couldn't have a solid, respectful conversation with someone who voted for Trump calling me ignorant. And it's not because I necessarily think they're evil or anything like that but just because I personally feel endangered (warranted or not). That's the hard part of having rejection sensitivity that affects even conversations with people who I think of as friends. I think this is a pretty obvious character flaw of mine, but that's nothing new. I will or won't work through some parts of social anxiety, and only time will tell.
Anyway, since I was doing a bad job anyway I decided to stop caring and hung out for some more conversation with Multiple Names Guy and Purple Corn, both people I've been not quite on the same vibe with conversation-wise, but I've just decided to accept that now and figure it doesn't have to be high stakes. If they're just going to be acquaintances forever, then whatever. Conversation was actually fine. I may have promised to show up to board games on Sunday, which I am wary about because ?? social thing with no fixed end time with people that aren't friends ?? but i should try again.... because Multiple Names Guy is bringing that Krokanole or whatever game he mentioned before to me... He must really like board games if he's trying so hard to get me to show up to them 😭😭😭 (I say "hard" but it literally isn't, it's just him extending the invitation and remembering one convo we had when I first went to book club). I know he's looking for friends but IDK if I'm the right fit for this, but it's probably just him being a bare amount of social considering that it's not like he even shows up to the art meetings when I'm almost always there, so it can't be me in particular that he wants to befriend. Alas, looped into social thing (cells in my body screaming)
Purple Corn walked in the same direction as me so I talked to her a bit more. She's pretty friendly also. Was easier to talk to her this time, I think? I will eventually achieve smooth-conversation with her someday maybe